Straight from the Huffington Post:
Abusive, derogatory and even racist behavior directed at House Democrats by Tea Party protesters on Saturday left several lawmakers in shock.
Preceding the president’s speech to a gathering of House Democrats, thousands of protesters descended around the Capitol to protest the passage of health care reform. The gathering quickly turned into abusive heckling, as members of Congress passing through Longworth House office building were subjected to epithets and even mild physical abuse.
A staffer for Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.) told reporters that Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.) had been spat on by a protestor. Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), a hero of the civil rights movement, was called a ‘ni–er.’ And Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) was called a “faggot,” as protestors shouted at him with deliberately lisp-y screams. Frank, approached in the halls after the president’s speech, shrugged off the incident.
But Clyburn was downright incredulous, saying he had not witnessed such treatment since he was leading civil rights protests in South Carolina in the 1960s.
“It was absolutely shocking to me,” Clyburn said, in response to a question from the Huffington Post. “Last Monday, this past Monday, I stayed home to meet on the campus of Claflin University where fifty years ago as of last Monday… I led the first demonstrations in South Carolina, the sit ins… And quite frankly I heard some things today I have not heard since that day. I heard people saying things that I have not heard since March 15, 1960 when I was marching to try and get off the back of the bus.”
“It doesn’t make me nervous as all,” the congressman said, when asked how the mob-like atmosphere made him feel. “In fact, as I said to one heckler, I am the hardest person in the world to intimidate, so they better go somewhere else.”
Asked if he wanted an apology from the group of Republican lawmakers who had addressed the crowd and, in many ways, played on their worst fears of health care legislation, the Democratic Party, and the president, Clyburn replied:
“A lot of us have been saying for a long time that much of this, much of this is not about health care a all. And I think a lot of those people today demonstrated that this is not about health care… it is about trying to extend a basic fundamental right to people who are less powerful.”
Lil Sis continue to show and tell the truth… when Americans behave like this and carry signs like those (and others) it cannot be excused… it cannot be dusted off shoulders by saying it’s just a few bad apples… there is a serious issue embedded in that movement that none on that side will rebuke or even stand against.
I want to know what our Conservative, Black Tea Party supporters on The Drum would have felt if they were in that crowd hearing those words (seeing those signs)? You see, this isn’t about ideology it is about power and the belief of entitlement that the majority class believe is their Manifest Destiny in this country. See how they twist it and claim liberal, Blacks & Browns want entitlement… what they are truly saying is that this is their country and they will do whatever is necessary to keep it that way.
The hate is never deep below the surface and I for one refuse to stand with ANY movement that is anti-Black. Yet, I’ll keep hearing from those of us who will excuse and even defend the Tea Party because it isn’t about race at all… they believe it’s about the ideology. They are mis-educated and cannot see beyond the surface… they don’t want to know the truth because they will have to make an honest decision. It is easier for them to dismiss these behaviors so they can stand with that crowd… they want so badly to be accepted that they are willing to allow that which they come from to be savagely attacked.
That is what saddens me sis… our very own brightest and best refuse to stand up for their own. That is our reality sis, but I know you are standing up for us and will never stay silent or excuse ignorance and evil.
One
Absolutely bro. People are too afraid to admit it’s really a race issue, you know a lot of our people think racism doesn’t exist anymore. They blame things on the media…like media invented slavery and racism. They forget who is actually controlling the cameras. Blinded by ignorance because they are, as you said, too determined to fit in with some crowd.
You can disagree, but why do you have to should racist and homophobic remarks? It goes way deeper than this ideology mask people try to put on. You didn’t see this stuff when Bush was in office. But I want them to know I’m on to them…a storm is brewing inside me and I’m about to blow up.
There is no excuse for idiocy ever. But when my car gets keyed, my grass tore up, or when I get called a name for supporting a conservative I don’t claim the whole group is of that ideology, same here!
@ Giant, if you look for the truth, you would know these are a few bad apples. If I was there which I wish I would have been, I would have had the courage to tell these idiots that they go a out of their way to ruin the issues at hand and only reinforce the stereotypes people seem to never let go.
I often think they are Denm operatives set on a mission to do these things, because my expericne with tea parties has not been like this, yet I have seen bad apples get booed and thrown out of affairs! Did you know that? Tis true!! I have read a few really good stories that did not include this bullish. However the media only wants you to see a certain image portrayed because it keeps us from coming together. It is part of the conspircacy to gain power coming from both parties, which is why I would love to see a new party emerge! I am willing to bet the majority of people where there to send a message in a peaceful way. I also know people were told specifically not to hold these type of signs, yell stupid stuff and not to behave like fools to death and to leave that crap at the door. So where were theses reinforcers at the protests? They were doing just that and causing riots within the marches, good story about that from Jay Weber. It really spoils all the good work and honest reputations of those who disagree with the bill. I may have disagreed with it and would have protested, but at the end of the day, I need to be able to look in the mirror and answer to a higher power. I also need to be able to say that even though “my side” didn’t win, what is the next step to assist in coming to a comprise, resolution or make this work now that it is here? To sit and kick up more ish isn’t going to make the bill go away. What I can do is make it work or work to have it repealed. People need to start learning from the past, be able to say “I’m wrong,” or that is not what I believe and not get in their chest about everything. We used to be a nation that could sit down and work things out. Now I am afraid both parties are so power hungry and ego full that they can’t see right from wrong, left from right.
And no matter what Giant there are idiots embedded everywhere, otherwise we wouldn’t be shaking our heads at the brothers who give us all a bad name when they act a fool or we wouldn’t say why does the news always portray our people like that at each shooting. If you want to find, you can always seek out the bad, they are everywhere. The good people who set out to protest and leave a message don’t get press. That don’t sell papers, let’s not be nieve.
Hello everyone,
I’m a big fan of The Milwaukee Drum. I’ve been reading for a while and find the insight and perspectives expressed here enriching. Thank you all for the posts and the commentary.
I’d like to share my own perspective on the Tea Parties with you:
As a former vehement racist who spent 7 years leading hate groups and promoting hatred I’m especially concerned with the Tea Party movement. In their eyes I see the same look of those who I recruited in the late 80s and early 90s. I see thousands of disgruntled white people just waiting for someone to come along and explain to them how the Jews put a Negro in the White House to take their money and give it to the Blacks along the way to making their children gay. If I was who I was 20 years ago, I’d be standing there with a clipboard signing-up new members to my racist group left and right.
Today I vehemently believe that all human beings, including the Tea Partiers, are basically good and have an innate and natural desire to live an open and honest life while treating all other life with compassion and respect. This core truth serves as the foundation for peace as it’s common to every world religion and transcending of ethnicity, nationality, sexuality, and any other perceived difference that seems to sort human beings.
Unfortunately, this basic human goodness can often be twisted to inspire fear and subsequently the most heinous of actions, or simply go unrealized. The people who gleefully shouted racial and anti-homosexual slurs in D.C. truly believe that what they are doing is a good and honorable thing to do. They’ve been convinced that hate and violence is necessary to preserve their very way of life. The idea that “…progressivism is a CANCER!” echos the reactionary rhetoric of Southern Democrats being dragged kicking and screaming from Jim Crow.
Historian Thomas Sugrue described the Southern Democrat’s view of United States history as, “…a flattened image of the past -one of a color-blind constitution and a golden age of racial cooperation.” Sound familiar? Bring up slavery or Jim Crow or lynching and you’re “blaming America!” If Black people today have disproportionately high levels of unemployment, incarceration, poverty, and death it’s their own dumb fault. These are foundations of contemporary conservatism. They are tenets eloquently and underhandedly repeated by those politicians and pundits with the tongue for it, and when the indignant non-acknowledgement of white privilege trickles down to the Tea Parties the true ugly stuff it’s made of is revealed as “Nigger” and “Faggot.”
I don’t doubt or deny that not all in attendance of the protests approve. But their failure to prevent or at least genuinely condemn such behavior speaks volumes. It says that they are either not too offended by racial slurs to really do anything about it, or they compose such a minority of attendees that they’re scared to. This is the sort of environment created by deifying slave owners and sweeping this country’s disgusting and pervasive history of white supremacy under the rug of materialism. This is what happens when you see progress as a cancer.
If progressive cancer is what brought about the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments to The Constitution and an end to Jim Crow then I think we need more cancer please.
Thanks for hearing me out.
I write about similar subject matter on Life After Hate:
http://words.lifeafterhate.org/2010/03/deja-vu/
Peace,
-arno
Arno -
Thanks for having the courage to speak the truth… too bad some of our own fail to. Thank you for supporting our site and showing some love… keep reading, we are just starting.
Wow, that was deep. Thanks, and please keep reading and commenting.
thank you both! I am honored to interact with everyone here.
As Wonder Woman says “There is no excuse for idiocy” and I agree with her keen analysis. I know a little about what she is talking about regarding implanting operatives because when I was a mindless lefty I belonged to organizations that did just that.
I have a lot of respect for what Mr. Clyburn has done in the past as a civil rights leader but his own statement betrays his flawed world view ” A lot of us have been saying for a long time that much of this, much of this is not about health care a all. And I think a lot of those people today demonstrated that this is not about health care… it is about trying to extend a basic fundamental right to people who are less powerful.”
What he is admitting is that he believes in government redistribution of wealth, unfortunately this is antithetical to the principles our country was founded on and no matter how noble it sounds it will ultimately lead us into tyranny. The tyranny our founders had in mind to protect us from in all its forms when they designed our form of government. Now I believe Mr. Clyburn is sincere in his belief that this is the best way to right past injustice but never-the-less he is sincerely wrong.
Socialists will use noble cries for race, class, gender and ethnic equality, they will always emphasize the haves and have nots in an attempt to sway public opinion to believe that they will bring forth a better society but don’t fall for it as Mr. Clyburn has. It has never succeeded in the world and like the Berlin Wall it will crumble upon it own repressive weight as long as there remains the American Constitutional system of government and its free enterprise system to shine a light on the false promises of Utopian state-controlled economies.
Health care reform is not reform at all, it is a power grab, a step towards single payer “government controlled and managed” health care and ultimately the whole economy. Paul Ryan in his comments at the President’s Health Care “Summit” said it best that it is a “difference in philosophies” on the one side are those that believe in a top-down government controlled and run economy and those of us sincere “tea party protesters” included that believe in American free enterprise and “Limited” government. Like Paul Ryan eloquently said we don’t believe the “government should control healthcare we believe the people should”.
Here is Paul Ryan in his own words:
Taken For Granted –
So it’s Rep. Clyburn’s fault that he was called a n*****? It was his fault he received nooses in his office? It was his fault that he received racist faxes? It was Rep. Frank’s fault that he was called a f*****? All because they supported health care…
I may be incorrect, but I think you are avoiding the issue of whether or not there is a serious, racist element within the Tea Party… but I understand, you don’t want to see that ugly side of YOUR movement. You don’t want to believe that people that share you ideology cannot stand you as a person. Isn’t that a kick in the head… you march with these people that see you as less than a human. They call other people that look like you vile names and you say nothing. I have much love for you TFG, but I strongly disagree with your position to excuse, avoid and support a movement that clearly has a large component of supporters that hate my people. (Please don’t take this as a personal attack, it isn’t… just discussing the issue and I’m not attacking you as a person. You have the right to feel and do whatever you want.)
@ Wonder Woman – you call them idiots? No, they are evil, bigoted, angry racists people marching with Tea Party people that hate your people. There is no overstating that. If you were standing next to them they’d call you the same thing unless you had a Tea Party shirt on. They hate you, your family and other people that look like you. Nobody has said it is the entire Tea Party, but as Arno has clearly spelled out what is really happening… a White (former racist) can tell the truth and some of our own cannot shake their political alignment enough to recognize that some of their Tea Party brethren hate Black People. (Again, I’m not attacking you as a person please don’t take it that way.)
But I already knew that… as I stated I’d NEVER stand with a movement that hated my people. I guess that’s just the way the creator made me… Family First.
One
Giant I don’t understand how you can read that anyone on this blog believes that the racist faxes where Mr. Clyburn’s fault and I have not personally met one individual in the Tea Party movement that is a racist. Obviously I have only met a finite number of people in the movement but I firmly believe if you spent more time with the people involved you’d come to the same conclusion as I have that the vast majority are not racist as you believe. In fact if you do identify any infiltrators I’ll be the first one to join you to expose them for what they are. I assure you that the racists do not share my idealogy nor do I share theirs and I am no different from all the good people I’ve met in the movement.
I do understand you are not attacking me personally but I don’t belive you are correct in your accusations. By the way I definitely believe there is no place for fringe extremists or racists in the Tea Party movement or any good movement and I’m sure that MLK had to deal with people in his day who wanted to take the movement in a different direction.
The way I look at it is you are my people, italians are my people latinos are my people asians are my people etc because I take to heart the Gospel of Jesus Christ and if anyone is good enough for him they are good enough for me.
Peace be with you my brother!
Glad you cleared up the point about the faxes… you flew right by that point in your earlier comments. Just had to put a stop sign up for you to address the issue of the hateful stuff the statesman received.
Again, I didn’t say ALL Tea Party people are racists. I said there is an element embedded in the movement. Our Brother Arno co-signed on my thoughts. I think you’ll agree he has a lot more credibility to decipher that sort of population than you or I.
As I’ll continue to state… you have the right to disagree with me and continue to support the Tea Party and I’ll respect that. All I’m saying is that there is an element within your movement I have a big problem with. This isn’t the only time nor will it be the last time we hear about these “fringe” members who like to spit on Black People and call them racists names.
I’m sure there are fine people such as yourself that are part of the movement White, Black, Brown, etc. My core beliefs will not let me march with a group that has members (1, 100 or 1,000) going around spitting on Black People. Just cannot do it my brother…
Spiritually I agree We Are The World… however, work needs to get done and I’m working with Family First. Isn’t that a Conservative ideal? Take care of yourself, your family? Why else do we draw up districts and have elected representation? I’m not apologizing (you aren’t asking) for wanting Black People to do better… the way to do that is to get Black People moving, mobilized… I’m not mobilizing around things that are negative.
Peace be multiplied TFG
@ Giant-no offense my brother but I have been at tea party rallies and received much love and encountered many of OUR people. If you read and listen to conservative talk radio, Neilson is proving everyday that Blacks are leaning more right than ever before. What is the reason? There are many, but we are not abandoning our family, we are not excusing wrongdoings and we are truly not standing with racists who are embeded into the tea parties or radical lefty groups like Acorn! What we are doing is living in facts and realities. These stories are designed to fool people into thinking that the tea parties are racist masses of people when in fact they are a handful of bigots and idiots. If I had to be very honest, I encountered more racist remarks when I wore my GWB pin from Blacks than ever in my life and that includes marching in the 70′s in front of KKK hooded jackasses. As I said before I was cussed out, my car keyed, my grass and house disrupted all because I supported GWB? Am I not entitled to my own opinion? I had Black people acoust me at MY CHURCH and call me names and said “I hope you die and him too!!” IN CHURCH ON HOLY GROUND!!!! So if you want to buy into this mentality I invite you to come with me and experience positive protests in action. If I was ignorant I would believe all Blacks and all Democrats are just as racist as these people, but I learned to forgive, learned to stick to my beliefs, stay informed, know when to say I am wrong and when to stand up for what I felt was right and these people were few in number and DO NOT REPRESENT EVERYONE. Keep thinking these tea parties are all a bunch of hillbillies and you are buying into the greatest media scam of this presidency. To stay informed we really have to stop labeling groups and see the truth as it is, not what we want it to be. You keep saying we are making excuses and overlooking things repeatedly, I wonder if the same doesn’t go for you. Not that I am upset but very frustrated! To say we are excusing and overlooking and just keeping with party lines would make me and TFG real live fools, and I am sorry I take my vote and associations with the good and the bad! And I am no one’s fool!! Yes there are some people I don’t wish to be part of my conservative grouping. I don’t turn a blind eye just to stick to a party line. I am Wonder Woman and I am strong enough to say when I am wrong, but I won’t apologize for when I believe in what I think is the better choice and I am smart enough to see the big picture without having to become a Republican whore to do it, hell they don’t pay me. I am doing what I think i sright for my family nd my tax dollar, I owe no party my 100% cooperation! I am a queen and as such, I am educated, smart and strong. I do take offense to repeated comments that we are blind to certain right-sided actvities, just the opposite, I take them to task more so and call them out when they have it coming.
But it is undermining and short-sided tyo say well they are all just a bunch or racists and so they should be labeled that and shunned. This is so not the case, but I am hoing that Dems think as you do because if they do, there will be a real awakening to the truth come November. My advice to Dems, just listen and take in what we have to say. Don’t argue and let us be heard. Make your case or make a new way of governing. Learn from our mistakes. I would be very happy to see trial lawyers oops I mean politicians be about the business of the people, don’t care if they bleed red or blue.
Well said WW!
@Wonder Woman – that is what makes The Drum so beautiful, you have the right as a Black American Female to be Conservative and proud. You are free to make your case for your beliefs as you and TFG have and I hope continue to do so.
First, the defense that stories are designed to convince people that the movement is racist is not on point with me.
Never have I said all Tea Party supporters are this way, just as I will never say all Black People are Negrograts (Democrats). I am very vocal against an element within the Tea Party that is anti-Black and you can disagree with me or shrug it off as just a couple of idiots. That is your right… I disagree.
The Black People whom attacked you for being Conservative are ignorant and should be shamed. Give me their names and the church they attend and I’ll blast them for you. I stand against what I believe is wrong regardless of Party.
Truth is Wonder Woman, I dislike Liberal Whites and Blacks much more than I could ever dislike a Conservative. You know why? Because they are responsible for the sort of mental, social and ideological condition which has held Black People back. I cannot focus on Conservatives because WE are not their constituents and they don’t have any concerns about the Black Community. They make no bones about it and I’m not mad at them… Blacks (90%+) vote Democratic so why should they waste their time in trying to work for their benefit. That’s politics… see, I’ve said this time and again but you are just too new to our site to have that background.
I’ve blasted the Clintons, Harry Reid, Robert Byrd and many other Liberal People who I feel disrespected my People. Liberals keep Black People from believing in themselves and have so conditions us that we won’t wander to far from Master… We are Mis-Educated and many, many of my people disagree with me. That’s ok, freedom (mental, social, financial, spiritual, etc.) is the road seldom traveled by the multitude Wonder Woman.
So I really don’t waste much time focused on Conservatives… take note that the only thing that I’ve cried out against the Tea Party is for the racist tone and overly harsh things depicted (posters, t-shirts, etc.) with the President’s likeness on them. I’ve told people privately that Black People have waited too long to create their own movement like the Tea Party. That movement is impressive in what it has done for those that stand with them… I am intellectually honest and can acknowledge that.
My principals are greater than my political ideology… my people come first period. I will work with you if you stand for Us and I will fight you if you are out for Our destruction. That is Liberal or Conservative.
You like sports Wonder Woman… look at me as an ideological Free Agent… Free in Thought and not contracted by either party because they’ve both failed the Black Race because we’ve expected them to be our saviors. Until Black People do for themselves and wake up, we will continue to live below our God Given potential.
Lastly, it disappoints me whenever a debate is started when we point to the other side about what they do as a way to defend our team. Acorn is a joke so what? They can use you very defense to say it was just a few bad apples… in fact they have. Both sides have agents that are screwed up, both sides are reckless, both sides have loyal supporters that will never leave their Matrix… that is how it goes. I’m not looking to convert anyone from what they believe, just walking this path to speak truth from my perspective.
You insight is truly appreciated and it is always a joy to read what pours from your heart… stay true to that and you’ll be just fine… but you already knew that didn’t you Wonder Woman?
Much Love.
Giant forgive my ignorance but what black concerns do you think conservatives are not interested in addressing and who are you referring to that is explicitly voicing their disinterest? I am wondering what WW thinks on this subject or anyone else who cares to comment as well.
TFG –
Let me make my point a little more specific… I’d like Conservative Candidates (and others) to run on issues impacting us. They don’t because we don’t traditionally vote for them nor do we demand those we vote for to get things done. That being said, let me breakdown (briefly) what I think of the GOP.
Look no further than the lack of outreach to these group of Americans… there is no GOP outreach to Black America (Michael Steele only). The GOP has a serious record of achievement in helping Black People in America.
1. Emancipation Proclamation (I’ll give this to them, but discuss at length at another time)
2. Civil Rights Act 1866
3. 13th, 14th & 15th Amendments passed by Rep Congress
4. Civil Rights Act 1875
5. Civil Rights Act 1957
6. Civil Rights Act 1964
7. Civil Rights Act 1965
* Democratic President John F. Kennedy voted against the 1957 Civil Rights Law as a member of Congress
With this and many other accomplishments that the Republicans can lay claim to they stay silent. Why is that? Why does the GOP not trumpet everything they did for Black Americans? You can even go to gop.com and see more accounts of what they’ve done. Look at what they say about Frederick Douglass, Rainey, Catto, etc.
Yet they say silent about this legacy of standing up for Black People… why is that TFG? Why is it that a couple Conservative Black People are left out there themselves to try and influence other Black People that this is the place to be for them?
Here are some Black Issues that can be addressed by BOTH Parties.
1. Guns, drugs, violence in Black Communities
2. Black Unemployment (don’t tell me about tax cuts)
3. Black Business Development
4. Black Family Structure (70% single mother households)
5. Black Health – HIV/AIDS epidemic
6. Black Illiteracy – dropout rates, functionally illiterate
These are just a few that Black People need to address themselves. Now, they need to lobby political parties locally, regionally and nationally to support the issues that impact them. In my opinion we fall short of holding people to task to deliver on the things that they can.
100% of any of these issues cannot be solved by any outside influence I’m sure we’ll agree. However, there are some things elected officials could address in some capacity… but if we refuse to ask/demand that our issues be addressed, they will not.
Other groups lobby for their issues and they get heard. That is my bigger point TFG, the larger Black Community (voters) and the GOP have no audience with each other and therefore, there is no specific platform or dialogue to address our concerns.
Now, don’t let me put words in your mouth… school vouchers, tax cuts, anti-abortion, less government trickle down economics…
Enlighten the readers of the Conservative agenda for the Black Community… the floor is yours.
Here are some Black Issues that can be addressed by BOTH Parties.
1. Guns, drugs, violence in Black Communities
2. Black Unemployment (don’t tell me about tax cuts)
3. Black Business Development
4. Black Family Structure (70% single mother households)
5. Black Health – HIV/AIDS epidemic
6. Black Illiteracy – dropout rates, functionally illiterate
Giant how are you proposing these problems be dealt with?
@TFG – I answered your question. No more answers until we discuss why the GOP doesn’t speak to these and other Black Issues. I’ve already stated that Black People (primarily) need to solve, address and get started on resolving our problems.
“100% of any of these issues cannot be solved by any outside influence I’m sure we’ll agree. However, there are some things elected officials could address in some capacity… but if we refuse to ask/demand that our issues be addressed, they will not.
Other groups lobby for their issues and they get heard. That is my bigger point TFG, the larger Black Community (voters) and the GOP have no audience with each other and therefore, there is no specific platform or dialogue to address our concerns.”
I respect Michael Steele for showing up to Smiley’s State of the Black Union events in the past. I heard him state race trumps party (imagine that from a Black Conservative) and he is attending Sharpton’s upcoming summit. Rev. Joe Watkins is another high profile Republican that has showed up to Black Summits and understands the importance of speaking to Black concerns. He pastors a large Black Church in the inner-city in Philadelphia.
But as you say a few bad actors within the Tea Party… I’d like to say that these two Brothers are outliers of the GOP. They still have some level of consciousness towards the struggle of their people and are willing to talk about them from their ideological perspective. That is a beginning point I can respect and do.
@ Giant, finally I think we have reached our middle ground. I too am a free agent but with a right lean most times. I won’t hide my bias because I want to be honest and let you know upfront where I am coming from. One thing to be clear, I mentioned Acorn as an example of when the right labels a group as people are trying to do with tea parties. I do not believe in my heart all those college kids and people who worked tirelessly for Acorn and similar groups did so to scam an election, nor do I believe that all these new protestors are marching to embrace their racist inner self or deny other people from certain inalieable rights. Too many right wingers wanted to believe that all Liberals were in that mindset and now they are at home watching the game instead of playing. Either way, you are right I am new to the site, so I have some catching up to do. However I don’t want anyone to be fooled by this media who is in a battle to save themselves by rating or by paper and what they want us to think these groups are about. That is why I use my own experiences so that I can defend the people who truly worked so hard to make these events run smoothly and deplore the wicked and vial that showed up in our name. They do not define us.
I guess politics is like a marriage, you take the good with the bad and hope you can make some progress. The GOP is the party of our African American ancestors and could be again if we can make them understand they are accountable to us-if not, on to the next one. We really need to organize our troops and get our people back to the place that is rightfully ours. I always hope in a democratic society that these people we elected would help all people, now I guess I get a little wary and at times subscribe to the belief of who is going to take better care of my tax money and my needs and sometimes loose site of the big picture. Of course I will never give up hope but both these parties are seriously screwed and we need a “restart” button on their governing styles. Deeply rooted this is the basis of the tea party movement. It has been corrupted and misrepresented but ovrall this is the movement’s mission.
And as an aside I love “Drum” because we can debate and not get into a fight and come out more educated and informed. That is the most dangerous weapon of all, Black folks having a dialogue!! At the end of the day I respect you even more my king and we learn so much more from each other because we can agree or disagree, clear up misinformation, and get heated at times but it is all done with much love and respect. Regarding those church folk, I let God handle them, as for the people who messed up my car and my lawn, I look to Smith and Wesson! Just kidding, but if I find them, I will type my butt off and send them one big angry letter. I do that very well so I been told!! :)
I think the Drum staff needs an outing or luncheon!! Breaking bread seems like a good idea to make the team stronger!! Well it would be nice to meet my family!!
@TFG
I think there is so much misinformation out there regarding the conservative movement and mostly it is our fault. We are not even sure what we stand for anymore (well some of us). Thus the tea parties are here to remind us and to call us back to the main agenda.
If we were to listen to those conservatives that we think best represent us-Black folks, we know we want quality education first and foremost, jobs, healthcare reform, less government and less taxes. From these things the rest will come. I think our differences between the Dems and Repubs are the “how we get there” decision. Government, like we see in Milwaukee, wants to take over education. As much as I would love to see it taken away from the corrupt school board and teachers union that has it now, I don’t believe Milwaukee government can do it better. The solution-choice because it is clearly a parental and tax payer solution. You choose and you decide and schools have to find solutions or close. It is of course not quite so simple, but it works when we get the crap schools disbarred for qualifying for choice money. Anyway I question any government involvement at any level. Like House Speaker Pelosi stated, the healthcare reform would be as great as Social Security! Was she kidding? The nerve to compare this “reform?” with Social Security which is going defunct really scared the ish out of me. Again I think as Blacks we need to be concerned about Education and Jobs first and foremost. Education because our kids are preparing for jobs that do not even exist yet and if Black students are at a most extreme low in reading and comprehension next to other American school kids, think how they will compete globally, which is where 90% of future money earning is going to come from.
Secondly jobs because we are releasing felons and criminals to the same streets with even less hope and econominc propserity and telling them to make a difference or go back to prison, thirdly taxes because we cannot compete with people who come in from foreign countries, set up shop on our corners and don’t pay any taxes for at least 7 years (then they set up same said shop under “new management” and on and on it goes-NO TAXES FOR LIFE), meanwhile the Black beauty shop and Black barber shop are paying capital gains and other business taxes til they are out of business and cannot compete. Less government our last issue if I may sum up Black conservative thinkers and hopefully do them justice, because government is so corrupt and so badly mismanaged that they do not know the will of the people, nor do they care. Also the free economic system we live on now was built to have little to no government regulations. When we do, look what happens. Does anyone expect to get any actual work completed at the courthouse that should be done within minutes on a computer? Does anyone believe that city and county workers are doing the best job they can and don’t appreciate their great benefits and extras increasing while businesses are falling left and right. If you don’t I can show you the county workers in the park across the street from my job that sit there daily for an hour of two! Yes Obama created new jobs but they were mostly government jobs and that is bull. Not to say all government employees are craptacular but a good number of them are and receive premium benefits are our expense. When was the last time you were treated right by a government employee. Again not all but a good number. I loathe going to any government building because it is our tax money not at hard work that I see and is it too much to be asked to be treatd like a human from the person paying your salary, wage? Anyway the less of government, the better we would be when we trust in the market to rectify itself, and not be dictated to. It worked for Clinton and Regan, it will work now! Or so in God we trust…
I think the GOP does not remain silent. I think they choose to use more inclusive words, which I agree with to some degree. Of course I want to see issues for Blacks but aren’t they supposed to be all of our problems and not just Black peoples problems/issues? Some time go I went to a diversity training and that is what they taught-inclusivity. For some reason that is also the mindset of the GOP, use inclusive language and you cannot go wrong. With Black folks I am not sure this is a solid strategy? We want a detailed outline of what you gon do for us! Michael Steele is only one person to the hundreds of Black elected and he was only heard by all after he held the top GOP office. That is not our fault, he been in the game for a mighty long time. To some degree our silence is our fault. We stopped going into the Black community because we are scared of it. We (I am claiming them all right now). We fear what we don’t know and we don’t utilize the Blacks that we do have as a way to get into the community and understand the Black persons issues better. How many times was GWB invited to a Black event only to be embarrasingly shouted down? That is Black folks fault and part of the problem we must own that as a serious problem we have. The rest is not being brave is GOP fault. But I can see why they don’t as I can see why Blacks shout them down and out. After my own experiences which I spoke of earlier, I can see why white GOP and even Black GOP members don’t come in our hood. But if they were smart, and I am talking to Scott Walker now, I would take my white behind right into Perkins and order breakfast, not talking but listening and every week I would be somewhere in the hood, the real hood not some rich Black church but real rock from the rock so-to-speak!! If he does this, we can back his play and say well he came and tried to listen but look what happenend. If he continues to stay at a distance then we can say why should we vote for someone who didn’t give us the time of day? We do need to be welcoming to all those running for election, holding townhalls where everyone is allowed to speak and no judgement is made, and that is where Blacks folks need to be more upfront about our treatment of the politicians. You don’t have to agree, just listen and be informed. GOP needs to be more agressive, stop blaming the media and get your butt out there and get the message to the people!! If anything you will have a good time getting with us because we keep it real, have great church, and eat better!! Anyways… But the GOP, and I am not a big fan of Steele, needs to be more in your face with Black folks and be agressive and call out these things but be in the community and talk even when you are not being heard. Being seen is part of the solution, also I would reccommend that the 4 Black newspapers, start covering stories as if they were real journalists covering two sides of the story and not just their side. They do a huge diservice by perpetuating stereotypes, not calling out Black elected, and not shining light on the good conservatives do do. They set the tone oftentimes for this closed mindset and again there is eough blame to go around eitherway!
Good Lord, such long essays….if this is the effect I have on people (making people talk, we all agree to disagree) I can’t WAIT to have my own talk show!!!! :-)
Giant, I have to beg to differ with you about the GOP and the reforms you listed. While it is true that the political party that spearheaded such reforms were Republicans by name, the idealogical foundation of the party has changed from progressive to conservative since then, as that of the democrats has in an inverse fashion. To truly analyze the history of our country we need to look at progressivism vs conservatism, not republican vs democrat. It was progressive thought –the belief that we can work together to make society better than it is –that led to amendments 13 through 15, as well as the end of Jim Crow and the civil rights movement. It was conservative thought that opposed all of these historic leaps forward, often with lethal force. While I appreciate the intelligent debate on this subject from WW and TFG, I don’t see how either of you or anyone else who describes themselves as conservative can dispute this.
The “Free Market” isn’t some benevolent hidden force that will sort everything from AIDS to crime to the environment to teen pregnancy out if we only give it the chance. The free market wasn’t behind all of the progressive and positive events we’re talking about, in fact it was dead-set against them. The free market is what lead to slavery and the genocide against the indigenous people of North America, South America, Asia, Australia, Africa, and yes, even a large number of European people. Letting business run rampant is no more appealing a prospect than being marched out to Pol Pot’s killing fields would be.
It is this deification of capitalism and the Founding Fathers (who, btw, would slap shackles on you and have you whipped and returned to cotton-picking at best if you were Black and somehow travelled back in time to tell then what a fan of their work you are) that serves as the roots of white racism. I’ll never truly understand what it’s like to be a Black person in America, but as Giant pointed out, I do know a thing or two about white racism, and I can explain fairly succinctly how it happens: if you are a White person who is ignorant to this country’s white supremacist roots and consequently the advantages that centuries of such practices give you just for being born with the proper skin-tone, you will look at ghettos and the grim statistics of life therein (i.e. that 1 of 3 young Black men are dead or in prison) as evidence of Black people’s innate inferiority. And who could argue with you? If America was and is a color-blind la-la-land of genial opportunity for all, as the GOP and the Tea Partiers would have us believe, then what the hell is those Black people’s problem? Why can’t they just get a damn job and work for once in their lives? This attitude rapidly degenerates to out-and-out racism, and is actually inflamed by each Black voice that joins the rah-rah-free-market chorus. Then Michael Steele and John McWhorter can be pointed to while saying, “see, they were able to pull themselves up by the bootstraps! God Bless America!”, which then casts any Blacks not doing likewise as lazy and stupid. Interestingly enough, Barack Obama is consistently denied the same compliment, despite the fact that he is perhaps the best example of someone who boot-strapped themselves from nowhere to one of the highest measures of success once could imagine.
I am a political Free Agent myself. I believe that there are very beneficial aspects of both capitalism and socialism, and that an intelligent, inclusive form of government by necessity would incorporate those finer points while weeding-out the nasty stuff that leads to things like slavery and Stalin. I share the frustration of everyone involved in this conversation in that there is no viable political party that expresses this common-sense approach. As much as I don’t buy the Magic Invisible Hand theory, I also abhor the Nanny State that the bulk of leftist policy leads to.
Inre the Tea Parties: I admit that I’ve yet to attend one, and that I suppose I should before I continue to condemn them. As far as WW and TFG being warmly received, I don’t doubt that, but I’d be curious to see what would happen if you showed up wearing an ACORN shirt, or better yet, a birka (for WW). Inclusion as long as you toe an idealogical line isn’t very inclusive in my book. It seems to me that there is a very clear demarcation of who is a “Real American” and who isn’t, and I shudder to think of what happens to us Unreal Americans should the Palins of the world ever come to power.
Okay, after thinking more I realize how melodramatic I must sound. While my melodrama was(is) inspired by the melodrama dripping from the right, that doesn’t make it any less melodramatic. I think one of the biggest obstacles to people coming together to constructively solve problems is that both sides, all sides, tend to ratchet-up the urgency of their rhetoric until the very fate of the UNIVERSE is at stake! If Obama isn’t stopped OUR VERY WAY OF LIFE IS THREATENED!!! IF SARAH PALIN COMES TO POWER BIBLICAL LAW WILL BE ENFORCED AT GUNPOINT AND USHER IN WWIII!!! (wait, that actually sounds feasible) …but the point is this: when people are convinced that the world is at stake, they can be influenced to dehumanize those deemed to be a threat. Dehumanization is the path to genocide. We all need to remember that we are all human beings who are basically good; no matter what our skin color is, no matter how we choose to express or not express our spirituality, or our sexuality, or our nationality. I would hope that is something we can all agree on.
Arno you have described the strategy at the Whitehouse to a tee, like Rahm said “never let a crises go to waste” sure both sides of the aisle use hyperbole but if you are honest about it you must admit it is the “progressives” who have perfected the practice. Unfortunately, GWB opened the door to this by succumbing to big government crony capitalistic tendencies in his cabinet which has snowballed today under Obama and Pelosi.
“To truly analyze the history of our country we need to look at progressivism vs conservatism, not republican vs democrat. It was progressive thought –the belief that we can work together to make society better than it is –that led to amendments 13 through 15, as well as the end of Jim Crow and the civil rights movement. It was conservative thought that opposed all of these historic leaps forward, often with lethal force.” is an interesting spin but I don’t buy it and as a past lefty myself there was a time I would have bought your arguments hook, line and sinker.
I used to be a full fledged socialist and have traveled to two communist countries among other European style social/democracies (The Soviet Union and Cuba) in my quest to validate my ideology and my disdain for “capitalism” by experiencing “progressive” political movements first hand (yes, we called it progressive back then).
You state you are an independent yet your comments have nothing positive to say about conservative thought, somehow I’m not feeling the love right now.
you’re not addressing the question I brought up, which I’ll restate: was it progressive or conservative thought that brought about amendments 13-15, the end of Jim Crow, and the civil rights movement? I think you know the answer.
I think you also know that MLK and other key figures of the civil rights movement were considered communists by the right-wing of the time. Tell me how this speech would go over at a Tea Party:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2564.htm
You also didn’t address the fact that the Founding Fathers were slave-owners. I’m curious to learn how you can reconcile that as a Black conservative. I understand the issues inre wikipedia, but this article is a succinct summary of George Washington’s involvement with slavery. Please feel free to correct any factual issues you may find:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_and_slavery
and here’s some of the conservative in me:
I firmly believe in personal responsibility. I believe that self-determination begins with the self, and that for anyone to make any sort of progress they need to first get themselves in a mental/physical/spiritual position to begin. I had a leftist professor who I love dearly and was/is a huge influence on me, but next to her I look like Rush Limbaugh. She damn near jumped out of her seat to slap me when I suggested that heath care reform has to begin with people making better health decisions inre to diet and exercise. I still maintain that no matter what happens with healthcare “reform” in the US, nothing will get better until people realize that they can’t sit immobile and consume sugar and fat and expect to live anything but a sick, miserable life. It’s interesting that those opposed to healthcare reform –those who think that the current system of sick-care we have is a-okay –don’t acknowledge the crisis of sedentary lifestyles and lack of healthy food and the importance of dealing with those issues as a way to move forward. But I digress per par. Back to my conservative thoughts:
I also believe that businesses shouldn’t pay taxes, and that Obama’s pursuit of businesses in an effort to suck all the taxes he can out of them is a very very bad thing. Tax-wise in general, I think a radical change is needed in the United States. Capital gains and income tax should be tiered to not even kick-in until 6 figures, and then reasonably graded up to 7 and 8 figures. A federal sales tax could make up for any deficits this would cause.
I’m also not a fan of big government. And the biggest, most disgusting display of government this planet has ever seen is the United States Military, which has a presence in 175 countries around the world. It’s a head-scratcher indeed to try and reconcile how so-called conservatives bitch and moan about BIG GOVERNMENT if they have to stand in line too long at the DMV, but we never hear a peep about the >50% of every tax dollar that is spent on defense (an amount of money that dwarfs that in the new healthcare bill and Obama and GWB’s stimulus/bailout combined ), not to mention our big government imposing itself on the rest of the world. Anyone truly opposed to big government would be as up-in-arms about military excess as I am, but to even insinuate that there’s the slightest thing wrong with holding a gun to the collective head of the world is blasphemy according to right-wing dogma.
I can’t imagine a bigger government than one that would dictate people’s reproductive decisions and who they can and cannot marry while killing and torturing people around the world, but apparently such a scenario is the pinnacle of freedom to those in favor of such policy.
I suppose I would be more inclined to align myself with conservative thought if it wasn’t so hypocritical.
@Arno – I agree with the Republican Party changing, that wasn’t my point. All I wanted to ask (given the historical record) why they weren’t pursuing Black Voters. Answer is because Blacks don’t vote for them and a lot of what you stated.
Funny how the GOP website highlights all of the historical accomplishments and bio of Black People that were part of the party in the 19th century, yet you don’t hear anything from their leadership about Black People.
If color isn’t the issue, why make it a big deal on the website?
Everything else you stated is appreciated and your perspective brings credibility to the original content of the post.
Very insightful commentary and I look for more from you.
The reason why it is there and I can only infer is because the dems have laid claim to all good things that have been accomplished on behalf of minorities and have vilified republicans in the process to minority groups. I guess is this is an attempt to set the record straight and I would be willing to bet that if you asked the average citizen on the street (of any color) which party was responsible for these things they would guess incorrectly.
It is time for minority leaders to get involved locally to influence the direction of the GOP which I admit has not done a good enough job of reaching out but it is a two way street my brother!
yeah, I was off to beg to differ, as I wasn’t really differing with you! Sorry about that. I just felt that it need to be pointed out that the ideology of dems and repubs has flip-flopped since then.
I think that the reason that contemporary GOP doesn’t crow more (if at all) about the past accomplishments of the Republican party on behalf of Black people is because they too realize this idealogical paradigm-shift of their party and that they’ll get called-out on it in a heartbeat if they try to portray themselves as champions of the Black community.
Am I understanding you correctly that you believe that the founding Fathers and capitalism is the root of “white racism”?
I am curious what other system of government in your opinion is superior to the one established by our Founding Fathers?
For someone who admits to having never attended a Tea Party you seem to know a lot about the way they think and your comment… “I do know a thing or two about white racism, and I can explain fairly succinctly how it happens: if you are a White person who is ignorant to this country’s white supremacist roots and consequently the advantages that centuries of such practices give you just for being born with the proper skin-tone, you will look at ghettos and the grim statistics of life therein (i.e. that 1 of 3 young Black men are dead or in prison) as evidence of Black people’s innate inferiority. And who could argue with you? If America was and is a color-blind la-la-land of genial opportunity for all, as the GOP and the Tea Partiers would have us believe, then what the hell is those Black people’s problem? Why can’t they just get a damn job and work for once in their lives? This attitude rapidly degenerates to out-and-out racism, and is actually inflamed by each Black voice that joins the rah-rah-free-market chorus.” may be insight into the way you think or thought but it definitely isn’t apart of the vocabulary of the sincere Tea Partiers I know.
Your criticism of the “Free Enterprise” system is misplaced, it was an immoral abuse and perversion of the system by human beings that was responsible for the atrocities you describe and not inherent to the system as you attest. And if there ever was a system of government that possessed the means to correct these abuses it was the system of government that our Founding Fathers created. Everyone who objected to abuses of power in Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, China or Cuba to name a few socialist countries are resting six feet under with millions of their fellow compatriots.
Somehow my gut instinct tells me that your political free-agency leans post-American and certainly towards the left but I guess I should be a little more patient and wait to hear about what aspects of our Founding Fathers, capitalism or the free market you do admire.
All I can say is there is racism embedded in both parties. You take your party and make it responsible and working for you. I have shown up and wore my Kente head to toe and braids proudly at many conservative events and smile proudly! I feel very welcome and never felt out of place. As many citations that were pointed out against the Repubs I could point out for Dems. The 2 biggies would be Welfare and marital taxes that destroyed the Black family and Black middle class. What I do know is as the Drum states we need to make both parties accountable and it is good to have our people and our issues represented in both parties to keep voicing our concerns either way. I appreciate, respect, and listen to everyone’s view and I understand to some degree your logic but since I didn’t live your experiences, I cannot fully understand but respect you and where you are coming from. We all have one clear agenda, something must change and soon. It is the way to get to a better place that we all have concerns about. As we talk it out we learn and grow and thus we create power and take it back from those who misused and abused that.
Peace to all!
Those are wise words WW, thank you for them! I’m not going to talk any more trash about Tea Parties until I go to one. You are the first conservative I’ve ever heard mention peace in a genuine manner btw.
TFG: you are indeed understanding me correctly! It’s very plain that capitalism and the Founding Fathers are the root of white racism. White racism is the result of good people trying to rationalize colonialism and slavery. It’s simply not proper to go around invading people’s land, taking it from them, destroying their religions and cultures, then enslaving, raping and murdering them, but that’s exactly what Europeans began with the colonial age and the United States carries on to this day. In order to have common support for colonialism and slavery, both of which were every bit as heinous as that of any authoritarian regime you mention and with vastly more victims, Joe White Guy had to be convinced that the Black, Brown, and Yellow people of the world weren’t quite as human as he was. Human beings simply don’t go around slaughtering other human beings; that only happens after a process of dehumanization. See the UN definition of genocide and apply it to the slaughter of indigenous peoples worldwide over the past 500 years or so.
http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html
And what was the driving force behind the genocide of colonialism and slavery? It was the Free Market. It was a wealthy elite hoarding more wealth in the process of bringing niceties like coffee and cotton to Europe, where the people who consumed such products were told that the non-white people who were stepped on along the way were primitive savages who were better off once Jesus replaced their religions and white men were around to keep them in line. So yes, by all means capitalism and men like George Washington, who signed laws permitting slave owners to hunt runaway slaves and restricting US citizenship to “free white persons.” were the roots of white racism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_and_slavery
Again, I admit I have never attended a Tea Party. However, I have personally recruited hundreds of people into white racist groups, and untold thousands more via my band Centurion. A prime recruit was a white person who felt that they were getting shafted. A white person who felt that they had to work to support those who were too lazy and stupid to support themselves. I preyed upon their greed by telling them that the government was taking their hard-earned money to give it to the Blacks. I preyed upon their fear by pointing out the horrendous conditions in the inner cities and reminding them that that was in store for the whole damn country if we didn’t take action. I was able to successfully do this only with white people who were ignorant of white privilege –white people who saw our country’s past as a wondrous color-blind land of opportunity and thus anyone who had failed to realize the American dream had only themselves to blame. And why the hell should they pay for them, right?! Do you recall the childish tantrum thrown appropriately enough on floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange that coined the term “Tea Party?” Rick Santelli whining about “…subsidizing losers’ mortgages”? It’s the same us vs them, screw-you-I-got-mine outlook that marked a person ripe for recruitment. While I haven’t been to a Tea Party, the rhetoric of Palin, Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, FOXnews, etc is dripping with that exact same sentiment, which again is that if you are poor, it’s your own dumb fault along with utter ignorance and/or denial of white privilege. That’s all I needed to get started, and I batted about .300 in my efforts.
It’s interesting that you can write off slavery and colonialism as “…an immoral abuse and perversion” while giving capitalism per se a pass, yet cite every failure and disaster attributable to authoritarian communists as a resounding and thorough condemnation of socialism. The fact is that there are many wildly successful social democracies on Earth; there have been in the past, and there will be more in the future. Norway, for example, has a democratically-elected government that is beholden to the citizens and not lobbyists. The oil reserves of Norway, which export the 3rd most of any organization on Earth, are nationally owned and the profits are used to provide universal health care and a solid safety net that’s rarely used because there is little poverty and even less crime. They have free speech and every other freedom that the GOP would have us believe are unique to the USA. The gap between the richest and poorest Norwegians is the smallest of any country on Earth, and there are plenty of rich people. There is plenty of enterprise. Business flourishes because they don’t have to bear the burden of their employees health care and other benefits of sharing the natural resources of the land. My grandfather, who is 100% Norwegian and a lifelong conservative, took back everything bad he ever said or thought about socialism after visiting there. I have friends who live there now, and I’ve had business clients who were branch offices of a Danish company. I’m not making this stuff up. All of Scandinavia in fact has such governments, and along with a long list of countries has significantly lower crime rates and drastically lower prison populations that the United States.
You got me on the not-a-free-agent bit. I’m actually the founding and sole member of the Tree-Hugging Liberal Libertarian Free Enterprise Socialist Party. Tree-Hugging because the Earth is our Mother and the only one we’ll ever have. First and foremost we as human beings have to learn to have consensual sex with our planet as the rape that greed inspires is doing irreparable damage by the minute. Liberal because I don’t accept the status quo. Libertarian because I don’t like extraneous laws. Free Enterprise because commerce can be a wonderful and enriching aspect of human existence without being the sole reason for it. And last but by no means least Socialist because I believe that the natural resources of our planet can be responsibly and equitably shared by all of us as we care for and help each other.
I do thank you for the poignant questions TFG! They are drawing some expression from me that I’ll likely use in a Life After Hate piece. You haven’t answered any of my questions though, or debunked any of my points. Your move….
Giant, I’m beginning to understand that you and TFG and WW have a lot to teach me. While I’m aggressively trying to discredit an ideology you all find ways to work together. I very much admire that and will try to be less combative as I live this life in tribute to your inspiration. You all have my love and respect and I know we all share a love of peace. I really need to catch-up on some other projects and spend time with my visiting daughter, so I’m going to sign off for this thread. Thanks again for the great conversation! -arno